Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 106
02/04/2010 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| HB76 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 76 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 76-LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL & LB&A MEMBERSHIP
8:07:58 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the only order of business was HOUSE
BILL NO. 76, "An Act relating to the membership of the Alaska
Legislative Council and the membership of the Legislative Budget
and Audit Committee."
[Before the committee was the committee substitute (CS) for HB
76, Version 26-LS0335\S, Chenoweth/Cook, 3/3/09.]
[Contains brief discussion of HB 288.]
8:08:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG reviewed that the proposed legislation
would provide for at least one member of the minority to sit on
the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee and the Alaska
Legislative Council, provided that the minority has at least 25
percent of the total House membership. He said this is a matter
of fairness. He reminded the committee that 22 years ago, when
the Republican Party was a minority in the Alaska State
Legislature, it requested proportional representation on all the
standing committees, and the Democrats complied. The two
committees not included at that time were the Legislative Budget
and Audit Committee and the Alaska Legislative Council. Still
not included would be the Armed Services Committee, which
Representative Gruenberg said he does not think works the same
as other committees; however, he said he would not have a
problem if the House State Affairs Standing Committee wanted to
add that committee to the bill. In response to Chair Lynn, he
said the standing committees act independently in each House and
are under the Uniform Rules, while the joint committees are
statutory. Representative Gruenberg opined that as a practical
matter, this change would not make much difference on the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee, but it would on the
Alaska Legislative Council, by giving the minority one more
seat. He indicated that the bill would take effect in the
[Twenty Seventh Alaska State Legislature]. He added that it is
nice to have two members on the council in the Minority, since
sometimes it is difficult for one person to get to all the
meetings.
8:11:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said she is considering the
consequences of the bill. She cautioned that it would be
possible under HB 76 for one party to fill all the seats.
8:12:12 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG responded by offering an example of the
Senate as follows:
The minority seat would be from the party, because
they're Republicans. Theoretically, I suppose, if the
members of the majority who wanted to be on that
committee were only Republicans that could occur, but
it would be the will of the majority. The Democrats
would be putting the Republicans on that committee and
would have agreed to it. Because, in this case, ...
if the minority were of one party - 4 [members] - and
there were 10 Republicans in the Senate, that would
mean of the 16-member majority, the members of the
Republicans - only six - would be outweighed by the
Democrats 10. And if the Democrats put all six of the
Republicans on that committee, ... they'd have to
have, pretty much, the unanimous vote of the Democrats
to do that.
8:13:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that was his concern at the last
hearing, and the answer is found in the language of Version S,
beginning on page 1, line 14, through page 2, line 8, which read
as follows:
(b) The membership from each house must include
at least one member from each of the two major
political parties. The membership from each house
must also include the number of minority members that
is proportional to the number of minority members in
the house compared to the total house membership or to
one seat, whichever is greater. In calculating the
number of seats to which the minority is entitled,
fractional numbers that represent the minority
proportional entitlement to a seat shall be ignored.
For purposes of this subsection, "minority" means a
group of members who have organized and elected a
minority leader and who constitute at least 25 percent
of the total house membership.
8:14:13 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO expressed concern that there could be a
situation in which there are two major political parties, but no
"lead."
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said the term "major political parties"
refers to Democrats and Republicans, and if one of those parties
ever dies out, there would be a new major party. Title 15
addresses getting minor parties on the ballot, he noted.
8:16:40 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON indicated that the inclusion of at least
one member from each of the two major parties is in existing law
that "is being moved to Section 2"; therefore, if the language
is problematic in the bill, it is problematic in existing
statute. He said the organization of the legislature and party
affiliation has changed, and there are majorities and minorities
that are "mixed" in both houses. He said even if there was an
even split of all Republicans in the majority and all Democrats
in the minority, HB 76 would not complicate the situation for
appointment of members.
8:17:19 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON indicated that he thinks [HB 76] came
about because both the make-up of the legislature and party
affiliations have changed somewhat, and he said he does not
think the proposed legislation would complicate "the situation
for appointment of members based on party."
8:18:57 AM
CHAIR LYNN said he had hoped the chairs of the Legislative
Budget & Audit Committee and the Alaska Legislative Council
would have testified. He suggested that the members of the
House State Affairs Standing Committee who serve on either one
of those two entities [Representatives Gatto and P. Wilson] may
have some insight to offer.
8:19:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered his understanding that the bill
sponsor is also sponsoring HB 288, which proposes that any party
with 2,500 registered members would become a political party.
Hypothetically, he asked, "When it passes, that means 2,500
people can sign up for a party, someone gets elected from three
or four different parties and to a different district, ... what
would they be in terms of minority party?"
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG answered, "They would not qualify here
... unless they elected enough people to be 25 percent of the
body." He directed attention to page 2, lines 6-8 [the last
sentence of previously provided text], and he noted that there
is similar language related to the Legislative Budget & Audit
Committee, on page 3, lines 8-10. He stated, "It would be the
same situation as the Republican minority in the ... Senate is
currently - they only have four."
8:21:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG, in response to Representative Gatto,
said if there were three parties in the House, numbering 26, 7,
and 7, then neither of the 7-member parties would qualify as a
minority; each of them would qualify as "having entitlement to
one," which Representative Gruenberg said would be the same as
if they were a single minority party. He explained that on a
seven-member committee, there could be two minority members, but
they would each be from a different minority party.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO reiterated that existing language specifies
two major political parties.
8:22:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE BETH KERTTULA, Alaska State Legislature, told
Representative Gatto that by definition, the two major political
parties are Republican and Democrat, but under statute as it
would be changed, unless there was 25 percent, there would be no
representation. She stated, "So, ... under 26, 7, and 7, you'd
still have a Democrat and Republican; you wouldn't have the
third party, because they haven't hit 25 percent yet."
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON added, "Unless they organized together."
He said organizing together as a minority is done regardless of
party, but then "the status of which of those two seven would be
identified as the majority party would probably be a statutory
fight at the time."
8:24:03 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG remarked that as Representative Seaton
said before, there would be no change to that current law. He
said the people who drafted that law probably did not imagine
this scenario, and he said he does not think it is likely to
occur "in our lifetime." He said if there was a situation in
which there were 26, 7, and 7, the two groups of 7 would band
together as a minority, as Representative Seaton had described,
in order to each be entitled to one of two seats [under HB 76].
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON suggested another scenario in which one of
the aforementioned groups of 7 could join in the majority. He
said he does not think the committee can solve questions based
on what configurations may take place in the future.
8:25:44 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG, in response to Representative Gatto,
said he does not believe that statute refers to Republicans and
Democrats as the major political parties.
CHAIR LYNN concurred.
8:26:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA talked about the difficulty of having
been the sole minority member of the Legislative Budget & Audit
Committee, which she noted is a large committee comprised of 10
members. She indicated that the value of having minority
representation stems from the heart of democracy. She mentioned
the coalitions that have formed, which she characterized as an
Alaskan way to show that people are more concerned with issues
than with partisan politics. Nevertheless, she said "the shoe
is always going to be on the other foot at some point," and HB
76 brings the legislature closer to a true minority
representation - to what is fair. She expressed her commitment
to uphold the intent of this legislation if the Democrats should
once again be the majority party in the future. She asked
committee members to think about times when they may have been
the only person in a room with a particular point of view, and
to consider that HB 76 is a small step in the right direction.
8:28:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN directed attention to language [that
would be deleted] from page 1, lines 9-10, which read:
[INCLUDE AT LEAST ONE MEMBER FROM EACH OF THE TWO
MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES].
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN asked if it would be helpful to include
at least one member from each of the two caucuses.
CHAIR LYNN said he does not think that would be helpful, because
"caucuses are more fluid typically than parties are."
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON related that an incident occurred in
the Alaska Legislative Council in the past, which the majority
of those on the council thought was wrong; however, the chair of
the council, who was a minority member, would not allow the
council members to come back together to work on the issue. She
emphasized that she wants to avoid that happening again.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON recalled the situation to which
Representative Wilson referred, and corrected that the chair was
a member of the majority, but it was a situation that involved a
coalition.
8:31:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG, in response to Representative Johnson,
confirmed that HB 76 would in no way make standing committees
statutory. He added that he has no idea why the Legislative
Budget & Audit Committee and the Alaska Legislative Council are
statutory.
8:33:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA, in response to questions from
Representative Johnson, explained that both the party and the
coalitions will be at play. She explained, "You've got to have
one member of the majority party, so you'd always be assured one
Democrat or one Republican - whichever - and then the figuring
goes into whether or not there's a coalition. ... Whether you
have 25 percent of that minority is what becomes important."
8:34:26 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if there is a difference between "the
majority" and "the majority party".
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA responded that the terms are being
interchanged.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO related his belief that "we don't want to
mix majority and majority party."
8:35:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG interjected that the current
requirement is that there be at least one member from each of
the two major political parties. The internal makeup of the
group is a result of how the appointments are made, which is
typically from "the majority." That majority currently has the
right to appoint as many minority members as it wishes, and will
continue to have the right under HB 76 to determine who they
elect to the council. The only difference would be that the
minimum number of members appointed from the minority would be
two instead of one.
8:37:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON concurred with Representative Gatto that
the discussion should not be about majority political parties.
He said HB 76 does not address majority political parties; it
addresses major political parties and "majority and minorities
regardless of political parties," regarding the organization of
the House and Senate.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA concluded that the proposed legislation
is an effort to reach fairness. She concurred with
Representative Seaton regarding "the breakdown in terms of
majority political party versus members of a group that makes 25
percent or more."
8:38:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he hopes the committee allows the
bill to advance. He said he has not thought of any circumstance
under which the proposed legislation would be unfair to anyone.
The concept is already in play on all the standing committees.
Expanding it to include the Legislative Budget & Audit Committee
and the Alaska Legislative Council, he opined, would show the
fair-mindedness of the members of the Twenty-Sixth Alaska State
Legislature and the ability of the political parties to work
together for the good of the state. He said he thinks the
public wants politicians who can work together and "not get
stuck in gridlock."
8:40:10 AM
CHAIR LYNN asked if there was anyone else who wished to testify.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG related that Representative Harris said
he supports HB 76.
8:40:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON expressed discomfort in having
Representative Gruenberg speak for the chair of [the Alaska
Legislative Council].
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG retracted his statement.
8:41:45 AM
CHAIR LYNN closed public testimony.
8:42:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said he does not intend to slow down the
proposed legislation. He offered his understanding of the make-
up of the Legislative Budget & Audit Committee and the Alaska
Legislative Council.
8:45:07 AM
CHAIR LYNN, in response to a question from Representative
Petersen, offered his understanding that the alternates who
serve on the Legislative Budget & Audit Committee are called
into play when a member of the committee is absent for a vote.
8:45:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said there was a time when he served on
the Legislative Ethics Committee, when his alternate stepped in
to vote, because Representative Gruenberg had a conflict of
interest.
8:46:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said Representative Gruenberg had, at one
time, stated that one cannot determine how someone will vote
based upon his/her party, and he said he concurs with that
statement. He said it is also true that a majority member in a
committee would not necessarily vote with the majority if it was
not the right thing to do.
8:46:59 AM
CHAIR LYNN commented that he has had personal experience not
voting with his party.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG echoed that remark.
8:47:08 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN moved to report CSHB 76, Version 26-
LS0335\S, Chenoweth/Cook, 3/3/09, out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, CSHB 76(STA) was reported out of the
House State Affairs Standing Committee.
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